Chapter 2: The Suspicious Aftermath

In the pictures. Can you tell me what was seen in the van? Yeah, I tell you exactly what was saying in it. Welcome back to Missing in Hushtown Season two, Bethany Markowski. This is chapter two, The Suspicious Aftermath, and I'm your host, Jules Hi. Everybody, and last episode, we left off with Harold Roberts, Larry's former best friend, talking to producer Rachel about what he alleges he was shown by the FBI things that were in Larry's van. Let's take a listen. Oh, puddle blood in the van, condoms and the TV carre Yeah. And I asked the agent that told me this. I said that right there is enough for y'all arrest him all out there, and they said no, because he told us that she was on her period. I said, what what about that TV carry in that condom? Whose is that? He said, well, we don't know. And I told him, I said, well, you can go and get one of her brushes or something that she used to have at his house and find DNA's. You know. And I don't. I don't know whether that was ever done or not. But that's that's the disappointing stuff about this. I want to tell you that he better be thankful. I'm not an agent. I'd have done had him. There right there in inconsistency, she sat on a thorn, or she was on her period. If she was on her period, wouldn't Johnny be able to corroborate this? I promptly texted her, Jules, Hi, hits me again, quick question. Did Bethany begin menstuating by eleven Johnny? No, she definitely did not, And there we have it from the mother. I believe, Johnny. They lived with aunts, cousins, then in an apartment, but still with the help from family. I doubt Bethany would begin a period without her mother knowing, or any other woman in the family knowing for that matter. Plus an eleven year girl men's stuating would likely mean the school would be informed and the school nurse would be available for Bethany to utilize her private restrooms and supply. So no, we don't believe Bethany started her period by that Friday, March second, two thousand and one, that she was with her father on her second unsupervised visit. So that leaves us with what Larry allegedly told the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation when asking if there was any reason they would find Bethany's blood in the van, he said, quote, yes, Bethany sat on a thorn end quote or did he say this? And it's important for us to make something very clear. We don't know Harold. Aside from our interviews with him and our interviews with others who have shared their experiences with him, We've been guided not to trust everything he says, and although that goes without saying, for us producers, we wanted to extend that warning to you too. But it doesn't just stop at Harold. To be fair, everybody's worldview and experience is biased and may cautiously be trusted, even ours, But we can choose to hear, listen, and present pieces we think are important for continuing the dialogue as we search for Bethany's whereabouts. We'll dive into the warnings about Harold in a later episode, but as of now, it's all alleged and according to his recollection, something pretty unexpected has happened since we started writing the scripts for this podcast, and it's this Larry Markowski's wife, missus Valerie Markowski, has continued to establish a respectful texting relationship with me and the last week I've been able to ask her very direct questions about holes in this case. Throughout the podcast, I'll be including part of our conversations. Mister Larry Markowski did decline to interview in person, as we previously stated, but he is answering my questions that I send a Valerie. As we've stated all along, we want to offer everyone an equal opportunity to share their truth. We believe it's ethical to inform them what is going on in the episodes. This isn't a gotcha podcast. It's a ask the tough questions to all the players and then form theories after podcast. The following is an excerpt from a conversation between Valerie Markowski and myself through text. Now, this conversation occurred on October sixteenth, twenty twenty five. I did not alter or reword any parts of this excerpt. Jules, does Larry stand by saying Bethany's sat on the thorn and that's why there were some drops of blood on her pillow and blanket. Valerie question is was it even confirmed to be Bethany's blood? That's my question, Jules. We just don't know. They won't confirm to us at all. But there was blood found, yes, and the report is Larry said she sat on a thorn when they asked if there's any reason they would find her blood, Valerie, I mean it could be blood from Larry Shaven. Even if there was blood found. I only believe half of what the police say, and given them one half is a lot. Jules, I guess my question is if he said that or not to law enforcement. Now. I didn't receive a reply to my follow up question about it. When I spoke to Johnny about the blood, I asked her where the confirmation about the blood spots in the van, on the blanket and pillow came from, and she told us it was from Special Agent Trout. Valerie Trout was one of the Tennessee Bureau of Investigations assigned agents to Bethany's case at the time. We've not been able to get in touch with Missus Trout, though not for lack of trying. If you hear this, miss Trout, we'd love to extend an invitation to interview with us. We do have emails between Special Agent Trout and Johnny that we will be referencing in future episodes, though, and that brings us to the suspicious aftermath of March fourth, two thousand and one, the immediate aftermath about four to six weeks after. To be specific, it's apriland Tennessee two thousand and one. Bethany leam Markowski has been missing for more than four weeks. Severe weather begins to pick up in the South. Warmth in this season, creating unstable atmosphere makes perfect conditions for chances of tornadoes. About three hundred miles southeast of Jackson, Tennessee, just above the Tennessee Georgia border is a town called Cleveland Cleveland, Tennessee, and situated in that town is a small diner, a few waitresses working an overworked but very skilled small town cook in the back in a hawk clutter kitchen, and sprinkled around are both regulars and travelers alike taking a moment in their busy days to sit down and enjoy home cooked food and conversations. This particular day, a waitress notices a middle aged Caucasian woman accompanied by a young girl. She appeared to be about ten years old. The young girl was twirling her hair, looking very nervous. The two sit in the back of the diner in a booth When the waitress approaches them to take their order, the woman states that they're waiting for someone and they'll just have water. It's then the waitress notices the woman's shoes are untied, her hair appears to be unkept and unwashed, and she looks to be hungover with dark eyes, with even darker bags underneath her eyes. And next to the little girl who looked nervous, it was hard for the waitress to not notice that something seemed off. The woman didn't have a bag, purse or luggage, no, Instead, she was carrying a black trash bag. There was a payphone out front, and the two would stand up from the booth, walked to the payphone outside, make a call, and then come back in. This went on for three days, Yes, three days. The waitress followed her instinct and called the police, but by the time the police arrived, the woman and the young girl were gone. However, she was shown photos of girls and picked Bethany out of the photos. Here's Johnny's recollection. I didn't witness it, and I did not have it in writing, but what I was told was when they went to that cap paid to investigate it, they took pictures of little girls. Bethanied me and one of them, and the people, like the waitress said, oh, that's the little girl. The guy and the cabs said, that's the little girl. The police were able to track the women and the girl through the cab company which arrived to pick them up. And it's then that the cab driver also identified Bethany and a group of photos of girls he was shown and he confirmed he was taking them to the bus station. One thing about what this man told enforcement has always stood out to Johnny. It's one that she can't shake. Could this truly have been Bethany? The gentleman said the little girl in the cap was twirling her hair and biting her nails. This was one piece of information that Bethany which Johnny did not publicly share, that Bethany would do. Bethany was a nervous nailbiter and twirled her hair when she was nervous. Although the police did not arrive to the bus station in time to find the girl and the woman, they did confirm that two tickets to Moline, Illinois were purchased. We will tell you when the bus arrived in Moline, Illinois. Neither the woman nor the girl were on the bus, so that has us wondering did they ever even get on the bus. A man sitting at the bus station recalls seeing the woman and the girl, and when asked where they were headed, the young girl told him Disneyland. The man then observed that the woman seemed very protective, not allowing the young girl to even walk a few feet away to the drink machine, but he shrugged it off. You know, likely this is just an overprotective parent. I had a very instilledy good relationship with the TVI, and they would come to me with all kinds of information. Hey, this is what we found out. This is And every time I would do an interview and I would get asked questions, I would the tv I were mostly always there with me, and they'd look, you know, I would look at them and they're like, and I kept everything under wraps for fear fucking up the case. Johnny explains to us that many years went by where she was so cautious about what information she shared, but she realized one day that almost twenty five years have gone and it was time to share it all. Rachel and I asked former Commander Michael with the Jackson Police department about the sighting in Cleveland. Could it have been her, We still don't know, but we never could establish. That it was from Cleveland, Tennessee. Will be the same town that Larry himself would move to after he left Gleeson, Tennessee. And it's now we introduce you to Larry's sister in law, a woman named Carol Markowski. Carol Markowski is deceased now, however, she was married to one of Larry's brothers, Robert Markowski. Why bring this up, Well, a police sketch was circulating of a woman who was allegedly added private or Catholic school in Sweetwater, Tennessee, which is about forty two miles north of Cleveland, and where his sister in law had been residing at the time. And this police sketch looks very similar to Carol Markowski, short, unkept hair at the time, a bit of a turned up nose. However, Carol had light eyes and the sketch artist was told that the woman had dark eyes. So what happened, Well, a few weeks before the sighting at the diner in Cleveland, Tennessee, a woman walked a young girl into a private school in Sweetwater, Tennessee and tried to enroll her. The staff pushed back, saying they could not accept her application for enrollment without her information, and the woman had none with her. And it's then that the woman allegedly tells the school staff quote, well, I'm her aunt. She'll have to return with her father end quote. After this encounter is when the police sketch began circulating, and it's this sketch that will become widely known. It's important to note that the police sketch of the woman is of the woman at the school trying to register the girl. It's not a sketch of the woman at the diner. Could it be the same person? It could be, after all, the waitress described her just like the school staff did, but that sketch was not the woman who had the girl at the diner for three days. And that's been a bit of a misconception in this case the last few decades that we wanted to clear up. When Larry asked about who the sketch looks like, mister Larry mccowsey claims that it looks like his mother in law, Johnny's mother. Only enough, the sketch also resembles his own mother, Jannite Award. I did find one school, a private school, not Catholic, that is located right in the middle location of Carrol's apartment and her parents' residence at the time, just forty minutes north of Sweetwater, and that is in Knoxville, Tennessee, Saint Joseph's School. This school opened in the fall of nineteen fifty three, so it was well established by two thousand and one, five miles from Carrol's parents' home and five miles from Carroll's apartment in the middle sat Saint Joseph School. Carol had an address in Knoxville from nineteen ninety eight to two thousand and three, and she also had a peo box in Sweetwater, the same town where the alleged sighting of Bethany was at the private school, and this peo box was owned from two thousand to twenty fourteen. These sightings filled Johnny with hope. In fact, when the siding at the diner was reported, law enforcement truly believed that they found Bethany, so much so that they called Johnny and told her they got her. So what happened? How did that trail go cold? Oh? The tickets were said to not have been used for the bus ride that day in April two tickets to Moline, Illinois. So where did a woman and a child disappear to and why did the trail go cold when they were so hot on their heels. We'll post the police sketch of the women trying to enroll a young girl into the private school in Sweetwater, the sketch, which also seems to be the same description as a woman at the diner. One question that sits stale in the air for most of us is this, who was the woman at the diner waiting for Why did she wait three days before calling a cab to take them to the bus station. Some of Johnny's family has a theory one I did ask Larry's wife Valerie about. But first, here's Bethany's cousin Jordan. I think about that, like the first sightings of that girl and the woman in the cafe and stuff. I mean, it's probably also that you guys already know, but like that he was supposed to deliver to that exact cafe, but his truck was delayed for like three days because it was like broken down and getting fixed, and the woman and the girl were calling on the phone for three days. We asked Johnny about the delivery to the cafe or the diner, and she clarified that she does not believe he was meant to deliver to the diner, but rather to Cleveland, the town where the diner was located in. And then also the girl that the witness that saw the little girl and the woman. She said that the girl was like biting her nails and that was something that had not been disclosed to the public that Bethany did whenever she was nervous. And there's all those little things there was. If I can try to remember right. Now, I asked Valerie, Larry's wife about the cafe or diner. Here's our conversation, Jules, can you help us understand the diner sighting, the woman and the young girl. Three individuals picked out correctly as Bethany were at the cafe for three days waiting for someone. Larry was scheduled to deliver a load the first day they were there, but his truck broke down for three days. I don't have documents to back that up, to prove or disprove, so I wanted to directly ask y'all did Larry's truck break down in was he supposed to be at that diner? Valerie? As long as I have been with Larry, I've never heard of him deliver into diners or cafes unless it has slipped my mind, but I really don't think so. Larry has always delivered to distribution centers, not little diners or cafes, just like that Catholic school in Sweetwater. Have you got any information on the Catholic school in Sweetwater? Because I have asked around and no one has ever heard of a Catholic school in Sweetwater. I googled it also, and she has a point. I too, could not find the Catholic school in Sweetwater, Tennessee in two thousand and one. You know from my interactions with Valerie Markowski she seems forthcoming and almost has a desire to set the record straight. Of course, she never met Bethany. Larry and Valerie will meet in June of two thousand and one, three months after Bethany goes missing, but she stands staunch in his innocence and will dig deeper into that in later episodes. Can two things be true? Could Larry have been a horrible person to many people in this life? In two thousand and one and before, but also had nothing to do with Bethany's disappearance. Absolutely, we'll continue to explore this. But I never did get a response about Larry's truck whether it was broken down for three days, the same three days the woman and the girl were at the cafe waiting for somebody. Since I have you here, I thought we could go through the most recent messages with Valerie. Our conversation took place after we already recorded chapter one, so I'd like to take this opportunity to share Valerie and Larry's answers to questions we addressed in chapter one. So let's back up to March fourth. Now stay with me here, this gets interesting. Remember that morning call Bethany made to Johnny, the one from the landline at that family home in Gleeson recalled that Bethany told Johnny that Larry knew her mother had a new boyfriend. And then it was reported that Larry drove Bethany to this man's house and they sat in front of the home. Jules. There are reports that Larry brought Bethany to Johnny's former employee's house and sat outside in the car and told Bethany, that's her mom's boyfriend's house. Valerie the boyfriend. He never sat outside his house, he only drove by. She also tells me that Larry did not park in the overflow parking lot. That he says he parked on the side of the mall across from the Strip mall side, and we'll post a photo of this location on our website missing in hushdown dot com and on our socials at missing in Hushtown on Instagram. This conflicts with what law enforcement told Johnny's sister aunt Laurie that amen on March fourth, and that's this Larry's van was parked the overflow parking lot out by the edge of the cemetery where the shovel was found, but law enforcement had allowed him to move it to where he alleges he was parked the entire time. Now. Valerie also told me quote, I know he said he never moved his van until a little while after the police showed up. It should be on the report where he was parked. End quote, to which I replied, quote, we don't have access to the report unfortunately. End quote. Jules. The biggest loopholes we can't get answers for okay, why did he turn off his cell phone for five hours? Why was he at Natchez trace, Valerie, I can tell you what Larry told me. His phone was never shut off for five hours. Never Larry said about the trek stop, He was absolutely never in there the date Bethany went missing. He went in there a little while after and explained to the man what happened, and Larry asked if he could hang flyers. He doesn't know if the man made an honest mistake or if he's just lying. He was in there a couple weeks after the fact, not the day of Jules. Did he shut it off at all? The calls went straight to voicemail, and his phone wasn't pinging until five forty three pm. We don't know who the individual is who claimed to have seen Larry at Parker's Crossroads, but he did say Larry told him that he just dropped his daughter with her mother in Nashville. She's thinking, Valerie. All I know is he said he never turned his phone off. Also, he was never in that truck stop until after Bethany went missing. Surely they have cameras. Did the police not check that? You know? I had the same question. It's unclear to me whether Valerie is saying Larry never stepped foot in that truck stop at Parker's Crossroads until a few weeks after Bethany went missing, or if he had been there in the past but just not. On March four, two thousand and one, here's Larry's daughter, Bethany's older sister, Jenny, and she is sharing about Larry's first unsupervised visit with Bethany. On the way home from that visit, that night, he stopped at that same convenience store in Parker's Crossroads. He went into get gassed, and she was in the very. Back seat of the van with a sad face. And I got went back there and I sat with her and I told her, I said, I know you don't want to be here. You only have a few more years until you're old enough to say who you want to be with, and that you don't want to come anymore. If you could just make it there, And then I saw him coming out, and I told her to put a smile on her. Face because she knew what he would do if he. Saw her like that. He would hit you. I'm not gonna say hit me, because I was grown at that time, but he would be upset and he would be mad, and you would know it. It would probably. Trigger him to see her back there. So I just told her to put a smile on her face. What is equally devastating is that Jenny would not find out that Bethany was missing until she called Larry on March fifth to ask how the weekend when Bethany went. Here's Jenny agud in an interview with myself and producer Rachel. Wanted to answer the phone and said he was asleep. And I said, what's he doing asleep this late in the afternoon? And she said, you don't know? And I said, no, what she said, Bethany's missing. I'm like, whatever, bulls you know. I was like, boll like I don't believe that. And she was like, I'm serious, Jenny, Bethany's missing. She said, watch the news tonight. And so I didn't have cable, so I was at my neighbors then using their phone when I called. So I came back later and watched that news and that's where I learned. Right there with my neighbors, I'm March fifth, Yeah, wow, oh my gosh. So when was the next thing we talk to Larry. I don't I don't remember. It was all blur. I know that I was on the phone, uh, not too long after that with my aunt. I called her sissy, but also called Bethany's Bethany called me sissy. So I remember being on the phone with my mom's sister telling her, you know, talking to them, telling her everything that was going on, and she said, I think she said they just my mom. Also, I called her and I think they just said the police just left Sidonia and that they were they think they were heading my way and I was home by myself, so and I didn't have a phone. But when they got there, they were like, who's Sissy, So apparently they knew, you know, they had I don't know. But I'm like, I'm Sissy. Like I'm Sissy, I said. And then my mom's sister is sissy. That's what we call her. And I remember he's I was sitting on the couch. I called my my boyfriend at the time. I called his best friend's mom to come up there and be with me. So I was alone. I remember us sitting on the couch and one of the police officers sat on my coffee table, and got like up in my face. It was like, you know what they do to people that have something to do with hurting little kids, you know what they do to them in prison. And I was like, I don't know, I don't know anything. I don't know where she's at. Like, that's my sister. I would definitely choose my sister over Larry my dad, is what I said. And they went through the garage, they went through the house. They you know, just kind of came in real fast and left fast. Did they ask permission to look? I don't remember. I don't I don't remember. I was so scared, crying, kind of felt like I was in the twilight zone. I just it was so fast. So they treated you like a suspect. Yeah, within twenty four hours of finding out your little sister's gone missing. I don't remember recall how long it was after she was missing. I'd just shaken over them gumming up and just swoop it in. So I find it crazy that they instantly swooped in your house and searched your house and did all of those kind of things. Yet the night that she went missing, they didn't search his vehicle or do anything like that with him. Back to the vehicle. The nineteen ninety five asked her a van. I asked Valerie Markowski if Larry had his van shampooed or bleached after March fourth, two thousand and one, and she replied, quote, the van was bought a couple weeks prior and was already detailed out. Larry did not clean the van. He was at his sister's after Bethany disappeared. If he detailed his van, which he did it or had no reason to, the TBI would know because they were watching him. End quote. I wanted to clarify, so I asked again, quote okay, so he never shampooed it himself while it was in his place session end quote. No reply to that. But here's where Valerie, not knowing all the details hurt her theories and her defense of Larry. The Tennessee Bureau of Investigation wasn't brought onto the case until nine days after Bethany went missing. The TBI was not watching Larry the first nine days. In fact, it was local law enforcement, and even then Larry was not yet named a person of interest. Valerie doesn't clarify how long Larry was at his sister Laurie's, but her daughters Kristen and Sarah Lynne both recall it was just a few days. Remember, they weren't allowed to open the door again for Larry after he left. This leaves just over an entire week for Larry to have his car detailed and shampooed, and according to Johnny, TBI agent Valerie Trout told her that when they got possession of the van, the carpet was damp and the van had been cleaned with bleach water. Larry purchased the nineteen ninety five as a van just a few weeks before Bethany disappeared. This would mean that if the car was indeed detailed and cleaned by the previous owners before Larry took possession, it would have stayed damp for a month. March in Tennessee is not humid, it's cooler weather. The carpet would have zero reason to remain soggy. And it leads me to wonder if the van was shampooed when TBI received it, then why would Harold say they found a condom, a pool of blood, and a pubic hair in the van. If Larry did clean it out, how could he have missed that we can theorize that the pool of blood could have been seen, possibly with luminol, but the bleach should have taken care of that. So we do have more questions and more questions. One thing from chapter one that still doesn't make sense to us is this, why did he need his sister Laurie shed to store anything in it at all? He was able to return home and Gleason, and it wouldn't be until three and a half months later, in July of two thousand and one, when Johnny and la Larry's divorce is settled in court where Johnny would be granted the home. So why put anything in that shed immediately the week his daughter went missing. When I asked Valerie about this, she wrote back, quote from what I gather, this is me, this is not Larry. Larry wasn't staying at the house all the time, so he probably gathered some things and just put them in her shed instead of having them piled up in the van, because I'm sure he slept in it sometimes end quote. This same van would be sold by Larry to a car dealer on April thirtieth, two thousand and one, just about four weeks after Bethany goes missing. The van is then traced to an auction house in Florida, where it was then purchased and sent to the new owner in Puerto Rico from two thousand and one to two thousand and three. The van will not have a trace of a title, but we do know that the van was no longer in the United States. Larry purchase fixed up cars and sold them all the time, so this actually was an odd to us. But what was odd is this is the only car that ended up traveling out of the United States. It could be he had no control where the dealer sold it to or would send it to, but we do know this. There's been a rumor that Larry's van went to Mexico, and we went to clarify that that van was never sent to Mexico. Here's Jenny, Bethany's sister and Larry's oldest daughter, again telling us about the van. After she came up missing. I remember him coming to my house and Dresden. He pulled up in the van and he told me to go look in the back. And I went around to the back and there was a box in there, and I said, what is this. There's a bunch of equipment, and I'm. Like, what is this? He said they he said, they hacked his van. What's the word I'm looking for? Stripped it the police where they can hear? Oh, they wired. It, wired his van. Yes, And he found it and he tore it all out, I guess, and put it in the back. That was Do you how soon was that after shoot went missing? Do you know? Wasn long at all? Because he still had that van and I don't know how long. I don't know how long he had the van after. I don't recall, but I do know. We were standing outside in my driveway and he told me to go back there. We as former Jackson p D Commander Mike Colt about the van being wired. Not going to go into the investigative techniques that were usual. That's fair. As we continue to dive deeper and deeper into the depth of the unknowns in this case, some pieces will begin to fit together and some simply won't. I sat down with Johnny, her sisters Tommy, aunt Lourie, and their friend Diane, and I asked what justice would look like? What does justice look like for you? What will have to happen for you to feel you have justice? To know what happened to Bethany. You want to know? I want number one. Number one. The most important thing to me is to find out what happened to Bethany. It drives me crazy thinking about her bones, you know, laying out somewhere and just being herself. I don't it bothers me. I don't like it, and she it is my baby, and Bethany deserves to be laid to rest if she's not alive, and to me, that would be justice. The number one thing is to find out what happened to her and for the person that is involved to pay for it. I mean, whoever did this, and I think we all know who it is has had twenty three years. I'm honest. Yes, I do believe Larry. Kill I do. As producers, we strive to be transparent and forthcoming with each side of our cases. So I had to tell Johnny. So throughout this course of this, we're going to deep dive and try to prove or disprove. And so that's kind of because if we can disprove it, then that goes you in a different partment. There's always a chance of anything that takes us where, you know, I mean, whatever we believe we have to follow the information, but I think the team is focusing on proving and disproving every single theory, and so, like you being as vulnerable and open and sharing all these details, also everybody else come to a conclusion and see why too. And so that's what we did. We followed every lead, theory and piece of evidence from testimonies, documents, articles, and it led us to new leads and tips. And after a year of investigating, producer Rachel and myself caught a lead that we couldn't ignore, and it led us to create Bethany's Brigade Search Team, And on October eighteenth and nineteenth, we'll be searching for Bethany's remains in a location near Jackson, Tennessee. We're at the point, and I know Johnny's already been at this point and we've talked about it many times where we have to at least move forward and try. Johnny cannot afford to ignore any tip. We'll take you along the search in the last part of this podcast, so you'll want to stick around. But that's a great transition to our next chapter, Chapter three. Bethany Markowski, Missing not Lost. Join us next episode as we introduce you to Bethany, the young girl full of wits, spunk, personality, and boldness. Fall in love with the Bethany her loved ones new through their stories and memories. I think keeping her story alive keeps her alive. You know, people will still know who she is. They still and not just her, but you know any many other missing persons. You know, I still follow a lot of forensics things and just technology now is way far ahead of what we had back then. Uh, people living and deceased that have been missing for years have been identified, and I'm hopeful for a resolution what happened to Bethany? So are we? So are we? M hmmm, h m hmmm, h h m hmmmm, h. M hmm. Missing in Hushtown Season two is executive produced in partnership by Fire Eyes Media LLC's Jules Thorpe and Johen Rivera, as well as Mom Cast Productions Rachel Holloway and Heather Northcraft. The script is written by Jules Thorpe and edited by Heather Northcraft. Project lead is Rachel Holloway and master editing and audio production is done by John Rivera. Jewels Thorpe is your host. Fire Eyes Media Mom Has weird raising voices while raising kids.