Chapter 1 - Pt 3: The Weeks After

My memory's fading too. I don't remember what beth Andy s laugh sounds like anymore. I don't remember what she smells like anymore. It's gone, you know, And I get losing the memories. It's like losing them all over again. But I will never ever, I really don't believe I will ever forget what happened the day she disappeared, or all of these years and everything we've done trying to beg people to give us information on one of the tapes that the TVI has right after Bethany disappeared. I think if it had been a week, maybe two weeks, and I was crying and I was saying, please tell me everything that happened that day, And he said, it's been a week or two weeks, whatever, way do you think I can remember what happened on the cow? How could you forget? How could you forget? I had nightmares about it for years. I couldn't sleep more than two to three hours a night for years. But yet. He couldn't remember. This is missing in Hushtown Season two, Bethany Markowski. This is the third and final part of chapter one. The week after I'm your host, Jules, Hey, guys, on behalf of Buthany's brigade. Welcome Back, Let's Go. Stored safely inside a clear plastic tub, a collection of letters, cards, records, leads checked away in the midst of different organized overflowing paper stocks, some folded and unfolded dozens of times, some read and reread, and some forgotten about. Is a certificate awarded to Johnny Carter by the Jackson Police Department, the award most truthful polygraph Results. You know who didn't receive an award, though, is Larry Joe Murkowski. And that's because his results showed deception. We find ourselves still in Jackson, Tennessee. And to catch you up really quickly, Johnny, her sister Anne Laurie, and their friend Diane or All and Jackson putting up missing child posters everywhere they can, talking to everybody who will listen, and wearing down the detectives with panic calls every thirty minutes from a frantic job. And at one point the detectives told her kindly, we can't do our jobs if you don't stop calling us, so we can do our jobs, and Johnny understood, but she kept calling because her daughter was missing. According to an interview on a Nashville News segment published in two thousand and two, a year after Bethany went missing, the TBI agent assigned to Bethany's case, Jack van Hoosier, shares this the state. Of Tennessee since nineteen ninety six, we believe has experienced four strange abductions, the last being Bethany Markowski in Jackson. Does this statement indicate that TBI agent Jack van Hoosier believes Bethany was abducted by a stranger? We believe it indicates that there is liability if they say she was not abducted by a stranger. And I'll let you know. Larry Murkowski has never been named a suspect in the disappearance of Bethany Murkowski, but he has been named a person of interest. Could that statistic have been shared to prove a point without saying it out loud? The likelihood of Bethany being abducted by a stranger was highly unlikely. A missing child was not something the Jackson Police Department was experienced in handling, So when Johnny's Hotel was swarmed with reporters trying to catch even a glimpse of missing Bethany, Murkowski's mother, Johnny Carter. In hopes of receiving any piece of information from her, the Jackson Police requested that Johnny do not talk to the press. This is something which has haunted Johnny over the years, as is very evident in today's world of information and studies into how information and visibility in the public eye helps missing persons cases. She wishes she hadn't listened to them. This is a common theme I've noticed from my interactions with Johnny. Her mind is always turning, analyzing what could they have done differently, what could they have changed. But I try to remind her quite often that nobody is ever prepared to have a missing child. There's no playbook, there's nothing to go by. All you can do is search as hard and as long as you can until you find her. And that's what she is still doing today. Twenty five years later, the week following Bethany's disappearance, the Jackson Police Department informed Johnny that the day Bethany went missing, March fourth, they found a shovel which appeared brand new, in an adjacent cemetery connected to the old Hickory Mall. According to the website Tngenweb dot org. This particular cemetery, named Elmwood Cemetery is quote a large black cemetery adjoining Old Hickory Mall on the West in Jackson, Tennessee. Maintenance at the cemetery is minimal, mostly occasional mowings. Perhaps as many as half of all the burials are unmarked end quote. According to law enforcement, the shovel had a sticker on it and they were able to trace it back to being sold at the Walmart in Jackson, Tennessee, and thus we're able to review security footage of a man checking out with a shovel. We will have a map of the mall on her website, so head on over to Missing and dot com and check out our blog post for chapter one. Rachel and I sat down with the former commander of Violent Crimes Unit, Mike cult. Would you like to introduce yourself in your experience and how you met the Markowski family. Well, I'm Mike Holt two thousand and one. Has it been that long? M Yeah, yes it has March two thousand and one. In March two thousand and one, I was the commander of the Violent Crimes Unit at the Jackson, Tennessee Police Department. I've since retired from JPD, and I became involved in this case on the evening on that March evening when Beth and It was reported missing at the mall. Apparently there had been a there have been a search in the mall by the mall security, and then officers responded in additional search and with the possibility of play, you know, we responded also and became involved in the investigation. My unit, my team at the time, then became responsible for the investigation after that that fact and continued upon. Actually, one of the investigators on that team that was involved in this investigation became a TBI agent and carried the investigation on with her to TBI, where I assume she's still the case agent. He is referring to TBI agent Kathy Ferguson. I was involved in all aspects of the investigation early on, within a few days after we got into the investigation, a new shovel was found approximate to the mall parking lot, and this would be on the other side of a fence in a kind of a wooded area between it and some apartments that was fairly regularly travel by kids and whatnot. Going back and forth. It seemed out of place at the time. We have not been able to connect the shovel to anything related to Bethany. I can tell you that the you know, the forensic testing that was done on it and whatnot didn't provide anything that was helpful at the time. You know, a Walmart SKEW code on a shovel is a Walmart SKU show on a couple on a shovel at every Walmart. So to be able to determine which one it came from it was not possible. So that does answer my follow up. It was taken into evidence, it was forensically tested. Was it tested against did you have Larry's DNA or fingerprints? Was it tested against any of that? Any anything with Bethany? Yeah, there was. There was nothing of forensic value to compare on the shovel. Gotcha? Okay? A side note, I cannot believe this shovel hasn't been reassessed or retested since two thousand and one. And that shovel it would then still be because it's still the open case, it would likely still be in evidence, I would hope. So technology advances are astronomical today compared to then. Also full transparency. If the shovel was retested since then, we don't know because they have not told Johnny or updated her on any of the retesting of the evidence that they collected. I really believe the shovel needs to be retested, so I pushed a little more. Do you know what it would take to retest that shovel? Who would be responsible to go in and do retesting? Just because it's been a few decades, TBI, TBI that night that Larry came in, did he give his DNA? Did he do a sample? Do you recall we. Did not collect his DNA at the time. And let me say this too, but the state of what we know and how we see DNA now, you know, in cases versus what they were like in two thousand and one. Okay, you know, it's not something that was routinely collected in cases in two thousand and one. It was collected when we had something to compare it to. Absolutely. Yeah, And that's one of the big points too, is what would it be like today if this happened today with all of the advances that are available. But even with his DNA, what would you compare it to? Yeah? And I mean Larry even referenced the blood in his van. We really wanted confirmation that the blood spots found in Larry's van were tested. We're giving something away a little bit ahead of time here, so yes, we will confirm right now that a few drops of blood were found leader in Larry's van, and it was through testing by the TBI Tennessee Bureau of Investigation, not the Jackson Police Department, and it would be eleven days later from March fourth. More on that in a little bit, though, Hang on tight. I have a few more questions. Was there ever a scent dog brought to that mall location? I don't specifically remember, but there's certainly something we would routinely have done. I don't remember. Did your department have sent dogs in the department? We had, Yes, we had canines that were tracking and our dual purpose canines. Would that be tracking in cadever not be tracking in patrol. It's a great time to remind everyone listening that although my colt is retired, this case has stayed with him forever, and he agreed to come on to our podcast to help Bethany in two thousand and one. He also had a little girl, also eleven years old, he shares with us how personal this case has felt and how it continues to remain. So if it sounds like I put him on the stand to answer questions, it's likely because I had a small windwof time and I had a lot of questions. Was trying to stay focused Bethany's brigade. We need you, We need your help to find out if search and rescue dogs were deployed to the mall that evening. As mister Holt himself shares that he wasn't at them all that evening, we haven't been able to get confirmation if sent dogs were used to track Bethany at all? Did they pick up percent at all? Who were her handlers? Did they go into the mall? Recall, the mall would close at six o'clock pm on March four, two thousand and one, it was a Sunday. Did they keep them all open for law enforcement? Were the dogs inside the mall? These aren't questions to catch Jackson p d not doing a great job, you know. In fact, this is a job in a career that most of us likely would not be able to handle. The things they see and live with often haunt them forever. However, we are big believers and asking the tough questions and going back and assessing what else could they have done? Now back to the shovel with the shovel? Did you did you yourself get to look at the Walmart security from people who were saying that that footage was Do you ever go a looking at any Walmart footage off someone buying a shovel? We looked at a lot of footage from the mall and other places. But where are they saying they saw that? Or were they video of someone with a shovel Walmart was seeing? I believe Johnny I might be mistaken Rachel, but I can also clarify what Johnny do. But I believe that Johnny had seen the video footage or somebody told her they watched a video footage and they're trying to determine if it was Larry or not. We checked it was Johnny checking out at the Walmart, and they were saying it didn't appear to be Larry. They couldn't tell. It looked like it could be the clothes and the hair. But because Larry kept his money in his front pocket and not in the back in a wallet, where this individual and the video pulled it out from they thought it might not be him. From the Bethanymarkowski dot com website. The individual on the surveillance Walmart footage bought the following a shovel, a rope, a two point five gallon gas can. In fact, the jacket the man on the video was wearing was a camouflage jacket, one which Larry was known to own, but he later says it was lost. By the way, the website Bethanymarkowski dot com is an incredible resource. Everyone needs to check it out. Bethany's cousin Jordan, does a phenomenal job updating it with recent information. Johnny says when she saw the footage of the man, it could be Larry, but one thing that didn't seem to flow was that it looked like the watch on the man's wrist was metal. Larry always wore a leather watch band. Obviously, with today's age of technology, nobody can go anywhere without it being documented their cameras everywhere, But in two thousand and one this wasn't the case. I asked mister Holt about intersection cameras. I wanted to see could we track Larry's van on the mot This would be a simple way to prove or disprove whether his van was even at Walmart. We didn't have intersection canra. His recollection is correct. We checked most towns in Tennessee had intersection cameras implemented after two thousand and six. It seems like the simplest ways we could solve this case today are the same ways that make this case still unsolved. In order to rule Larry out as a suspect in the disappearance of Bethany, we need evidence to prove where he wasn't. Instead, we're left with a few cell phone pings and a lot of could or could not. This would have been such a valuable time to talk with mister Murkowski, to ask him each question. Could he help us rule him out or was he concerned we wouldn't be able to He's referenced all the speculations surrounding his alleged involvement with the disappearance of his little girl by saying, quote, it's a witch hunt, end quote. And I would love to publicly say, with the platform that we have, we on this side are one hundred one percent focused on searching for Bethany. However, there is no story about Bethany without talking about her two parents, Larry and Johnny. For an eleven year old girl, those two people are her entire world, and one half of her world was the last one to see her alive. And his stories don't add up. Nor is he actively searching, begging, pleading to find her. Instead, he's refused to interview by stating, quote, nobody is going to believe me anyway. End quote. But mister Markowski, I still want to challenge you. What if you could offer an alternative view, an alternative lead. It's worth it if it brings us one step closer to getting answers to find Bethany. It's worth it, isn't it? With the shovel sitting in evidence for two decades, the Walmart footage of a man some people believe is Larry, nothing is confirmed. We move forward with our timeline. While Johnny and her sister and Diana are at the hotel in Jackson the week about the Ney's disappearance, Larry drives to his sister house. Remember Laurie Holt, the one who drove to the mall that evening with Larry's mother, Janita Markowski Ward. Yeah, he spent the next few nights at Laurie's house. Kristin and sarah Lynn were young then younger than Bethany by just a few years, and bravely interviewed with us about what they could remember when Larry arrived at their home. Producer Jenna Myself interviewed sarah Lynn first. She is three years younger than Bethany and the younger sister by eleven months. To Kristin, so I'm Bethany's cousin from her dad's side, which is my uncle, it's my mother's brother. I am here because I feel like Larry is guilty and he one hundred percent had something to do with Bethany's disapparents. I do not claim him as my uncle. I do claim my aunt Johnny as my aunt, even though you know she was just not by marriage. I one hundred percent support my Aunt Johnny and support Larry zero percent. And my goal is to get the inside scoop of our life and just try to get awareness out like what Anthony possibly went through. And there she is Sarah Lynn, and she is just getting warmed up. Buckle up. She didn't come to play. She wants her cousin home. So I'm gonna be honest, my mother did not like me being around Larry my life. I have been trained to be scared of her family from my sense like they molested or did something to their brothers and sisters, because I was always told that I couldn't be left. Alone with them. So that's always where my brain went. My mother has always honestly avoided contact with him. I feel like and I never can get a direct answer, but I was always told don't be alone with him. I was always told don't be alone with his brother Johnny. Sarah Lyne begins going into the day Larry came to their house the first night Bethany was missing. She admittedly has some memory issues, confusion on dates, times, et cetera, because not only was she just seven when Bethany went missing, but it's been two decades plus and trauma brain is real. It affects the memory and slowly takes away pieces of the puzzle you once had intact. But she does recall enough that time for us to work with. But first she wanted to get the listeners more insight about the Markowski family, Larry and his siblings, to be exact, so we gave her the floor. I truly think that their relationship as children was to be beat and neglected. I think mostly my mother tried her best out of all of them. I feel like the Markowski children were neglected and they were allowed to be abused verbally, physically, and mentally. And I feel like if you got out of a Markowski household, you probably lived in survival mode and you survived something horrendous because they were not the best people. I don't know if Glorie would admit it, but my mom has kept us away in her own way for her own reasons that she really hasn't really went into besides telling us that we don't ever need to be alone with them. Wow. That says a lot, though, doesn't it. Yeah, if you didn't catch that. Sarah Lynn often refers to her mother by a first name basis Laurie throughout this podcast, and we have come to learn it's for us listeners to know whom she's referring to. But the relationship is heavy, it's complicated, and appears fractured from an outsider perspective. One thing I will say is Lorie Holt has two amazing, intelligent, brave daughters who will continue to show up throughout the podcast. And share hard truths and hope that it will find Bethany. I've taken notes over the years of how the Markowski screwed our life, like it's screwed a lot of things in our life. And I love my cousin beth Me like, I feel like if she could have been born from Johnny and another man, I would have wanted her here today and she would have lived a great life. But sometimes, and this it hurts a lot of times, I'm like, I'm glad she didn't have to go anymore with Larry, like whatever happened to her, because I fully one hundred percent think that he did something to her to get back at Johnny. I'm sad that it happened, But I'm like, what would her life have been if she had to stay around Larry longer than she had had stayed. Now we pivot to the evening. Larry arrives at Sarah Lynn's family home in March four, two thousand and one, and here's what she recalls before we begins. This is a fairly lengthy piece of Sarah Lynn's interview, but US producers felt and needed to stay in as is to give Sarah Lynne the floor to continue to tell her truth. I was always told that Larry was allowed to stay at her house because the police asked my mother to let him stay there so they can watch him. That's what I was always told. I was told that the police actually was the one that set that up and made it like Larry needs to stay with you. Close quick side note, The following is all alleged. So I remember him putting all of Bethany's things and this shed that we had outside of our house, But other than that, I was just always told he was only there to be watched by the police, and my mother always made me think that he was being watched by the police is why he stayed with us, because honestly, I was scared because I was always taught to be scared of him. The shed. Can you talk to me about the shed was there? Did do you know if he kept things in that shed before? Did he ever come back and get the things in the shed? Did you ever see the stuff in the shed? I know that there was a lot of things in the shed that was said to be it was all Bethany's. Everything that was in his van was supposedly put in the shed. From my memory, I never. I was so young, I never went in the shed. I do know it was full after after he stayed with us, I do not remember. I can't remember whatever happened or did he come get it. Honestly, I've blocked it off. I can't remember what happened. Do you know if he kept things in there before Beth and he disappeared? Never? Never? I do know the shp has gone today. I have to pass the house daily, and I know the shed's not there no more. But I've never he never came to our house like that. Really, And when he stayed at your house? Do you recall how long he stayed there? In my mind, I can only remember like one or two days. It wasn't I don't remember it being completely long. And where did he? Do you even know where he slept? Honestly, all I know is I slept with my mother in her bed. That was Yet I don't know where he stayed there was only there was only two other rooms in one room. My mother had a man that she took care of that lived with us, so it had to be my room that he slept in or on the couch. Okay, and your dad and your mom were together at this time or were they. So they were together, but there he was. Their relationship was really like sometimes he'd be home, sometimes he would Okay, they were very domestic together, so I can't recall if he was there or not. And do you recall overhearing, because you know how adults talk and they don't always realize kids are actually listening. Do you ever recall overhearing anything that you could remember? Yes, I do, and it's going to piss a lot of people off, but I remember it distinctly, and my dad would be able to tell you as well. And my sister. I remember hearing my dad and my mom talking saying that Larry made an inappropriate comment to Laurie my mom. I don't know what it was, but I remember them bigger, and because my mom telling my dad that Larry had made an inappropriate sexual comment towards her. I don't know what it was it was. I know it had something about they were in my room and my mother bent over, and I honestly, honestly, I can't remember, but I know it had something to do with my mother bending over in an inappropriate comment. And I even called my dad the other day and I said, Dad, like and I remembering this correctly, Like I remember distinctly being told that he made an inappropriate comment when she bent over, and I remember my dad saying, well, that's not something you say when your child is missing. And you know that's that's not something you say to your sister either, but especially when your child's missing. And he said, no, you're remembering correctly. He said, Now, his honest words were, Now, I wouldn't go on a camera and say that, because you don't know if that was true or if that was made up. He said, but that did happen, now, he said, I don't know if your mother was being honest about it or not. He said, but yes, that comment was made. You remember it correctly. He's confirming that she told him that he nobody else witnessed it, is what he's saying, Yeah. And that I have a quick question. The timeframe was that around? Was that when Larry was staying with you guys? Do you know when that time frame? Okay, yes, that was when, because it was a big deal, because I really I just remember it being dramatic and drawn out, and that's why, like nobody wanted him there. So I remember nobody wanting him there and then that happened, and I remember, just sintly are my parents talking about it and being aggravated about it. So I will tell you this too, and it might upset some people. The way my mother remembers things and the way me and my sister remember things are totally different, and that might upset her, but it's the truth. Like I feel like she sometimes remembers things that she wants to remember because maybe it's a coping mechanism for her as an adult. I always I used to be mad, but the way that she would respond to things, But as I get older, I'm like, I really truly feel like all the kids Larry Johnny Warren, Bobby Timmy, my mom, I feel like they were so neglected and abused as a child and not taking care of the stories I hear. I think that they don't even realize that they're doing, like they're they're telling things that are not like how they should be told, or like the the real realization of how they should be told. So there's that. That's I guess that's why my dad and my dad noticed that too, And my Dad's like, I don't know if I say that on camera, and I was like, look, I'm not trying to make anybody happy. I'm just trying to get Bethany like I'm trying to paint a picture, because I feel like like nobody's ever been able to paint a picture because they've been too scared to paint a picture. So what I hear is what I'm. Going to tell. And if I make people mad, I don't care, because the ultimate goes to find Bethany and to paint what bethany childhood was like, to paint what her sibling childhood was like. Because if you know the real Larry, if you hear all the stories, then you know this man is guilty. And there it is Sarah Lyne through the eyes of an adult, carried on by the memories of a child. Larry Markowski to. Her as she remembers the week Bethany disappeared. We'll hear more from Sarah Lyne as the season continues. Anything else you want to touch on that we didn't touch on or anything. No, I just pray that my mom gets on here and she's honest about her brother. We've had an argument, We've argued this Bethany needs somebody to speak up for I was like, you know, we were young. We can only say so much. But you were an adult, so you're going to remember. I was like, so you tell your truth and if anybody's not at you, it doesn't matter. Like you tell your truth. I was like, but somebody has to be the advocator for Bethany because she's obviously not here. I was like, if you upset people, like, the goal is not to make people happy on this podcast, it's to find Bethany to get answers. I was like, I guess everybody thinks, oh, it's just gonna be tr a man, everybody's gonna hate me. Who cares? Is what I think? Like, if if justice comes from my cousin Bethany, then the whole world can hate me. She's had a terrible life, like she's missed out on so much already. If we can just bring her closure, or if she is alive, if we can give her a better life. I've always thought, man, I hope if she was cannapt, if she truly was, which I don't think she was. I think Larry did it. But I was always thought, maybe a good family cannapp her and got her out of this. Maybe because if she would have lived in that life. I don't think she would have lived a good life with Larry. I think Larry would have made it hell. Sarah Lyne's sister, also interviewed and shared about their uncle Larry. As Kristin recalls it, Larry was allowed at their home before March of two thousand and one. In fact, Bethany would come by when Larry would bring her and the kids would play together. But after Bethany went missing, it all changed. Kristen tells us that uncle Larry was only at their home a few nights, and the way she recalls it, he came back a few days after that, and that's when he put things of Bethany's into the storage shed at their home. And get this, well, let's have Kristen tell you. He had come in, dropped off a couple of his sayings a few days later in our little storage that we had, and my mom and then was l down open the door and let him in if he comes in, which we were younger, we didn't understand. We just know, don't let him in. Here's what we need to know. What the heck was Larry putting in that shed? Why did he need to move it from the van to the shed. He was going to return to his home in a few days. Anyway, why was it imperative that he store things away from his van or away from his home? You know what were still unclear? Is this whether Larry put the items in this shed while he was at Lorie's home those first few nights, or if he did indeed leave for a few days and return with things to put in the shed. Does this mean he brought things from home to store? And why or was it that Kristen doesn't remember correctly? Was Sarah Lynn right? Was it while he was there? Either way, we have got to find out what was in that shed. And here is why whatever was in his van, from bringing it from his home or not, was not in his van any longer once the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation joined the case and came for his van. And yes, there was blood inside the van. As you may recall, the van wasn't searched on the evening of March four, two thousand and one. There was no probable cause at the time. According to the Legal Information Institute, a rule was filed on November six, two thousand and one, and would become effective March thirtieth, two thousand and two, so a year after Bethany was missing, it would be mandated, and it's the Tennessee Missing Children Clearinghouse. It essentially states that any missing child shall be reported immediately to the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. According to the effect date, it may not have been mandated when Bethany was missing. But get this, the Jackson Police Department did not call the TBI intentionally. They only knew of Bethany's disappearance because nine days later, on March thirteenth, when the Jackson Police Department reached out to the TBI to run a background check on the individuals connected to Bethany's disappearance, that the TBI questioned why it was needed. And it's then that the Jackson PD informs them they have a missing girl. And that moment is when the TBI begins their journey into the case. And it's then that Larry's van was located and searched. Before searching the van, agents asked Larry if there would be any reason that they may find Bethany's blood in the van, and he replied, quote, yes, she sat on a thorn end. Quote. The next piece of information I am about to share is infuriating because if the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation had been notified immediately, I guarantee that nineteen ninety five Astro van would not have been washed and the interior would not have been shampooed by the time the TBI arrived. Yes, Larry had the van interior completely shampooed and clean. The blood that was recovered, it was just a few spots, and from all the information that we've been able to gather, it was on Bethany's pillowcase and a blanket. So this tells me it's still in evidence. I mean, it has to be correct. What else was tested on that blanket? There seems to be inconsistencies. About the blood. Was it a few drops? Was it all over? We obviously don't have access to the files as it's an open case, but we do know the TBI confirmed to Johnny that yes, there were a few drops of blood inside the van. This is a good time to introduce Larry's former best friend, Harold Roberts. Harold Roberts is getting his own chapter, as he is a key to piecing together this case. But let's just say Larry and Harold are far from anything resembling friends these days. Harold recalls the time when he witnessed Larry ms out a gas tank in front of him. There I went in the back of his truck and then toss a red rope into the woods. He's often wondered if that was part of something bigger. But here Harold tells Rachel about what he recalls about the van. I was told this by the empty eye in the Arkansas. Did we ever find Vithiny or her body? We got enough to put Larry away on what we found in the van. And they told me what was found in that vand and they showed pictures to me what was shut down in that van? The law enforcement showed you pictures. Yes, you know because I passed the ice to the lot of Tacher test right. And when I asked did they sing that I had no part of it? That I didn't know. So they thought, well, this guy knows Larry better than anybody. Maybe when you order used him a little bit, and they did. In the pictures. Can you tell me what was seen in the van? Yeah? Yeah, I tell you exactly what was saying. In its. Missing in Hushtown. Season two is executive produced in partnership by Fireeyes Media LLCs Jules Thorpe and Gen Rivera, as well as mom Cast Productions Rachel Holloway and Heather Northcraft. The script is written by Jules Thorpe and edited by Heather Northcraft. Project lead is Rachel Holloway and master editing and audio production is done by John Rivera. Jules Thorpe is your host fire Eyes Media. My mom has raising voices while raising kids